Ep13: The Coach Approach and Leading from the Discomfort Zone with Dr. Marcia Reynolds, MCC

TalentGrow Podcast episode 13 Coach Approach with Marcia Reynolds

In her work around the globe as an executive coach and leadership expert, Dr. Marcia Reynolds has seen some common challenges that leaders face. Marcia and I discuss these common challenges and ways to overcome them using a coaching approach. Marcia is one of the world’s leading coaches and a leader in the coaching industry. She shares ideas that can help leaders expand their employees’ capacity to do more and be more and why she suggests they push people into the discomfort zone. You’ll learn why and how to challenge people in ways that create breakthroughs and lead to lasting behavioral change. In the last few minutes, Marcia also provides a practical and actionable tip that every leader (current and aspiring) can use to upgrade their leadership competence.

What you’ll learn:

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  • What common challenge do leaders face around the globe and how to overcome it
  • What fear drives many leaders to avoid taking the time to truly listen and coach their employees?
  • What should you do when someone is being resistant or stuck to really help them to see other possibilities and lead to behavioral change?
  • What is the true purpose of leadership?
  • What is the benefit of pushing people into the discomfort zone and help them achieve breakthroughs?
  • What is insight-based learning and how do we generate more of it for those we lead?
  • What are some of the hints to listen for in order to help people achieve breakthoughs?
  • What story Marcia does share that makes Halelly go “WHOA!” and really exemplifies a helpful way that the coaching approach helped her former boss create a major breakthrough for her?
  • What do organizations need to do to better develop leaders?
  • What’s one actionable tip does Marcia provide that you can implement right away to upgrade your own leadership skillfulness?
  • What does ‘Partner Leader’ mean and why Marcia is pushing to create more of these kinds of leaders through her work around the world?

About Marcia Reynolds

Dr. Marcia Reynolds, president of Covisioning LLC, is fascinated by the brain, especially what triggers enthusiasm and innovation. This fascination has led her down many roads in her desire to stay on top of the shifts in employee engagement and leadership development. On this journey, she wove together three areas of expertise: organizational change, coaching and emotional intelligence. She is able to draw on these areas as she works with her latest passion—changing the conversations leaders have at work. She feels the most effective leaders help people think more broadly for themselves. When leaders have powerful conversations that change people’s minds from the inside out, the workplace comes alive with an eagerness to discover what is possible.

Her first expertise, organizational change, developed out of necessity when facing the challenges of running corporate training departments in the 1980’s and 90’s. Her greatest success came as a result of designing the employee development program for a semiconductor manufacturing company facing bankruptcy. Working with the executive staff, the company not only turned around, it became the top IPO in the United States in 1993.

However, as a corporate trainer, Marcia experienced the frustration of watching people enjoy their training classes and then apply very little of what they learned. In her search for new techniques, she enrolled in a coaching school in 1995 when she started her own business. She quickly saw the power of coaching to make the mental shifts required to sustain change. Her passion for the profession led her to become president of the International Coach Federation in 2000 and be one of the first 25 people in the world to hold the certification of Master Certified Coach. She now coaches executives and teaches coaching in her leadership classes worldwide. She is the president for the Association for Coach Training Organizations (ACTO) and serves as Training Director for the Healthcare Coaching Institute (HCI). She also is on the faculty of coach training schools in Russia and China.

At the same time that Marcia found coaching, she discovered emotional intelligence. She then designed and taught courses around the world. Her curiosity led her to dig deeper into the research that was redefining how we learn and evolve and get her doctorate in organizational psychology. This led her deeper insights into the problems many of her coaching clients were experiencing. Her doctoral work helped improve both her coaching and training. She shares her insights with coaches around the world, hoping to increase consciousness and caring as well as innovation.

Excerpts from Marcia’s award-winning books Outsmart Your Brain and Wander Woman How High-Achieving Women Find Contentment and Direction, have appeared in many places including Harvard Communications Newsletter, Cosmopolitan, and The New York Times and she has appeared on ABC World News. Her new book, The Discomfort Zone: How Leaders Turn Difficult Conversations into Breakthroughs, has been discussed in Fast Company, Forbes.com and on HR.com as well as many leading leadership blogs.

In her spare time, Marcia accumulates degrees. Her doctoral degree is in organizational psychology with a research focus on high-achievers in today’s corporations. She holds two masters degrees in education and communications.

The rare times she is home, she can often be found hiking the beautiful mountains in Arizona.


Marcia's website, www.outsmartyourbrain.com

Connect with Marcia via email, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, Google+, & YouTube

Marcia’s books:
Outsmart Your Brain
Wander Woman How High-Achieving Women Find Contentment and Direction
The Discomfort Zone: How Leaders Turn Difficult Conversations into Breakthroughs

Plus - check out my review of her book (along with 2 others great reads) on my blog

The emotional inventory Marcia mentioned, along with lots of other free resources on her site

The great book that Marcia mentions by Dan Pink is titled Drive: the Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us

Intro/outro music for The TalentGrow Show: "Why-Y" by Esta - a great band of exquisitely talented musicians, and good friends of mine.


Announcer: Welcome to the TalentGrow Show, where you can get actionable results-oriented insight and advice on how to take your leadership, communication and people skills to the next level and become the kind of leader people want to follow. And now, your host and leadership development strategist, Halelly Azulay.

Halelly: Hey there. Welcome back to the TalentGrow Show. I’m Halelly Azulay, your leadership development strategist and this is episode 13, featuring my friend and colleague and mentor Dr. Marcia Reynolds. She is an executive coach who is sought after the world over and one of the leaders in the coaching field. And she and I talk about the common mistakes she’s seeing leaders make around the globe in all of the work she does all over the world. She also talks about what are some common fears, how to overcome them, how important it is to do the right kind of listening, and what’s something that you need to do more of to be the kind of leader that people need you to be? And we talk about her latest book, The Discomfort Zone and how important it is for leaders to push people into the discomfort zone and what that really means. And then we end the episode with a very actionable tip from Marcia to upgrade your leadership competency. I hope that you take action on the suggestion at the end, and as always, share this episode with others who you think might benefit from it and share feedback with me. Thanks for tuning in. Here we go!

Welcome back to the TalentGrow Show. I’m Halelly Azulay, and I am here with a friend and a mentor and someone I admire, Dr. Marcia Reynolds, MCC. She’s President of Co-Visioning, a leadership training and coaching firm that helps organizations unleash the brilliance in their people. Which is such an amazing tagline, I’ve got to maybe steal it one day! And when I say MCC, what that means is that Marcia is actually one of the first 25 people in the world to hold this distinguished certification – Master Certified Coach – from the International Coach Federation of which she is also a past president. So she really knows a lot about coaching and is an expert on organizational change and emotional intelligence, in addition to coaching. She’s also the author of four books, the latest of which is The Discomfort Zone: How Leaders Turn Difficult Conversations into Breakthroughs. In her free time, Marcia likes to accumulate degrees, write lots of books and also hike in the mountains of Arizona. And I was very lucky to join her on a hike I guess maybe a year ago in Arizona which was just breathtaking and so much fun. Marcia, thank you for being on the TalentGrow Show and welcome.

Marcia: Thank you. Thanks for asking me.

Halelly: It’s my pleasure completely. So today I am looking forward to introducing my audience to your work, and to your brilliance. Some of them probably are very familiar with you already since you have made a name for yourself across the globe, but for those who haven’t or don’t know enough, can you give a little bit of an overview of your professional journey? Where have you been and how did you get to where you are now?

Marcia: Well like many people, sort of an accident. I say we often have accidental careers. I had actually started my first Masters was broadcasting, but I ended up as the AV coordinator for a mental hospital, where I was pushing televisions around and threading film projectors. But it was for the training department. And my boss then decided to get her Doctoral degree, and pretty much dumped the whole department in my lap with the first assignment being the management training. All these people that thought they knew everything about behavior, but honestly didn’t know how to be a manager or a leader. So it was an interesting assignment but I fell in love with training and developing leaders. And it just took off from there. It’s why I went to get a second Masters in education so I could figure out then what I was doing. But you know, then I moved into the technical field and I worked for 11 years for high tech companies, running training departments, changing cultures and it was just an amazing career internally with companies and I got to learn a lot just from both successes and failures. What doesn’t work. Which teaches us a lot along the way.

And it was when I had decided to leave to start my own business in 1995 that I read this article about this thing called coaching. And I thought about my most not just successful but most fulfilling times were when I got to work with the leaders one-on-one. So it wasn’t just putting them through a training program, but really being there as their partner over time. And to see not just what they could do that worked really well with their people, but to see the growth and development in the person. And I just loved that, and I thought, “Oh, well, maybe I’ll get involved in this coaching thing.” And then of course it was the right timing and this coaching thing turned into pretty much my entire career from that point. I still do a lot of training, but most of my training, even, has a coaching element. And even my approach to training is more of a coaching approach than I’m far more inquisitive when I stand in front of the room and asking questions and getting people to think. So it really altered who I am as a trainer, as well as what it is I offer people.

And then along with that, right after I started my business is when I found emotional intelligence, and also fell in with that. Designed a training program, and when the U.S. government called me to talk to me about training, they said, “You’re the only one we can find on the internet that teaches emotional intelligence besides Daniel Goleman and he costs too much.” So I had a huge run, five years teaching agencies of NIH. I’m the first to teach emotional intelligence in Russia, Kenya, because I came out early with my product, and really dived into the research, and it’s what led me to get my Doctorate in understanding how the brain works and how leaders can truly inspire people to make changes. So it’s a combination of coaching and emotional intelligence that I work with people.

Halelly: And those are things that are definitely interests we share. And I learn so much from you. It’s fascinating. So, your travels have taken you around the world, as you just mentioned, and hearing about some of your journeys and some of your experiences and I was wondering if along the way, in working with leaders who are all over the globe, did you find any kind of a common theme or a common challenge that they seemed to share?

Marcia: You know, there’s always this phenomenon where I think I know what it is that’s best that I do, but I just don’t do it. And we come up with all these reasons why I don’t do it. And that thing that I find that leaders always say to me is, “I know I need to spend more time talking to people and listening to them. I know that. But I don’t do it because ...” And the reasons are always the same. They always start with, “It takes so much time and people are busy as well as I’m busy,” and then they come down to, “That’s not really what they want from me. They want me to give them the answers. They want to come to me and I give them the answers so they can just go on and do their work.” And then if we dig even deeper, especially with new leaders, there’s always the excuse, “Well, but if I’m not the one who has the answers, they will think I’m incompetent.” So when we get down to it, there’s this fear of saying, “What would you think to do?” And helping people to think through it because they’re afraid of being judged that they don’t have the answers, that they’re not a competent leader. And I find this all over the world, that it’s not just time, but it’s fear that stops these leaders from just taking a moment and just being with the person in front of them, and trying to help them to work through their problems, their issues and even what’s possible for them. Even though that’s what the employees are crying for.

Halelly: I think that you’re right, and a lot of times when people ask for advice, first of all they don’t even know how to ask for it. But also the quickest way to ask for it is sort of the “just tell me what to do, or you’re the expert, tell me how is it done?” And so maybe that’s how we’re phrasing the question, but you’re right that it probably would serve them better and they would agree if they reflected on it that it would be better for them to learn how to come up with the answer on their own.

Marcia: Well, you know, the interesting thing is I teach a lot in Asia, and so there they’re adamant about people don’t want to spend time talking, because they have this more hierarchical structure. And yet it’s so fascinating and I get so much pushback in my classes, but then when they go to actually practice the coaching skills or the coaching approach with their people, they come back to the follow-up classes going, “Wow, that was magical!” Because it’s just habit for people to say, “Tell me what to do.” You know, but when we just give people the answers that you perpetuate that learned helplessness, that I don’t have to think for myself. And so even when you start to try to get people to think for themselves, they even may resist that. Like, “Why aren’t you giving me the answers?” And that’s okay, but if you remember and recall, “What is my purpose as a leader? Is it just to get things done or is it really to develop that person sitting in front of me?” And I believe when we talk about development, it’s not just developing their skills, but it’s developing their mind. And when we develop their mind, then they can actually start doing things far more successfully for themselves than that feeling that we get inside of what mastery feels like and autonomy and what Daniel Pink talks about – mastery and autonomy and purpose – that they start to really have that feeling. It’s not just doing, it’s a feeling. Those are the leaders we truly remember and admire because they helped us to expand who we think that we are, and what we’re capable of doing.

Halelly: Wow. And how much more powerful and how much better will the world be if we have more leaders like that?

Marcia: I agree! I mean, think about it. I always tell people in my classes, “Think about the people that you remember for what they did for you, in terms of your ability to do more and to be more.” They always say it’s the one who challenged me. Not the one that encouraged me and praised me, which is good stuff. But there comes a point to where I need to be just pushed a little bit more and to, again, and when I say pushed, I don’t mean just push people over the cliff. I’m saying ask some of the questions and make them stop and go, “Wow, I hadn’t thought about it that way.” And even that little bit, or I haven’t thought about myself that way that maybe I can be more, do more, or I’m getting in my own way. And I realize that. That’s just an amazing moment that people never forget.

Halelly: And that’s what you call the discomfort zone, isn’t it?

Marcia: It is. And it’s funny, because how many people said to me, “Well, when I saw the book The Discomfort Zone, I thought it was my own discomfort. That I need to be more comfortable with uncomfortable conversation.” And yeah, so that’s addressed in the book, but that’s secondary. Primary it’s are you willing to create an uncomfortable moment with the people that you’re with that when you ask that question that makes me stop and think, then I may realize that I have been sabotaging myself. I haven’t tried things because I’m afraid. And that creates an uncomfortable moment. But people get through that, and get to the other side when they have the realization. So as a leader, are you willing to create that moment that may be uncomfortable, but that’s when they’re most open to learn and to expand their thinking. So yeah, it’s going to be uncomfortable for you too. But then can you just breathe and hold the space so the person in front of you can learn and grow?

Halelly: Do you think that there’s any kind of connection between the leader’s maturity level – I don’t mean age maturity, but maturity as a leader or maturity being in their own skin – and their ability to do this successfully?

Marcia: I do in the sense of, again, what people tend to think of the purpose of leadership. Because I find that as we start being a leader early in our career, we’re so pushed to get things done. Meet the KPIs and help with the organizational goals, and that is important. But what happens then when the leaders sit with people, they get so impatient to move to, “So what are you going to do about that?” instead of just being with them. So it’s so hard for them to get over, we have to solve these problems and achieve these goals, and forgetting that you’re really there to help the person in front of you. And those things are going to get done, and trusting that. But as leaders progress, they start to realize that it’s okay to take a moment with the person and that things will get done. And when you say maturity level, you’re right. It’s not necessarily about age. It’s about being able to experience what being a leader is and being with people and we start to realize that what service really means. If I’m in service to them, as a leader, what does that really mean?

Halelly: And all of that compression in the workplace, where people feeling like they have less time than they ever did, and do more with less. I mean, that certainly isn’t helping, I bet?

Marcia: No. I know. We have to create our own little bubble for ourselves and no, I’m not going to be pushed by that. I’m going to remember what it is that I want to achieve and trust that is going to happen. That the goal is really that.

Halelly: So let’s just dig in a tiny bit more about The Discomfort Zone. Obviously I’m hoping that people will go and get a copy of this book because it’s fabulous. I am really happy that I was one of the first to get it and I was able to review it and help you to promote it. It is great stuff. So, if you could help people get a very high level summary of the main gist of the book?

Marcia: Well, the book is actually very practical, and I always thank my publisher for that because they always push me to, “Well, how are people going to use this?” Because I always want to talk bout the background and the science. So it’s a nice combination. It does start out by looking at what are some of those common habits that you and I talked about, and also the rationalizations and reasons of why people don’t do this. And then I debunk that and talk about so what is it that we’re trying to achieve and how do you really achieve that? That moves into the science of what it takes to create behavioral change, especially if a person is resistant or stuck, that they are not really going to listen to your brilliant advice in that moment, so you’re sort of wasting your breath. So when you recognize that someone is resistant or stuck, it takes a different approach to really get in and crack through that wall in order for them to see other possibilities about how that works, how do we create what I call insight-based learning in the brain that leads to behavioral change? Which is the ultimate goal of the leaders, to get this person to change their behavior. So I talk about what goes on and then what it is that you’re aiming to achieve, and then it goes into how do you do this? So I have a model and steps. I have this setup for the conversation. How do you want to go into the conversation? And then what do you do when you’re there? How do you listen for what to say? What are the clues that the person will give you that you say, “Oh, that’s it! That’s what I need to ask about,” that will actually break through their barrier. And then there’s two full chapters of case studies where the reader can read through how leaders have used this, so they can see for themselves how they may use this material.

Halelly: Which is so helpful, I think. And I don’t know, I think I’m like you that I love the abstract and the conceptual and the research and the theories. But I know that people just love to have those really concrete examples and stories. It helps them learn so much better. So, can you give an example about the listening? How do you listen for the clues? I’d love to hear.

Marcia: Well, I always like to give the example that happened to me, as well as I had my last boss was not somebody I would say was a great boss in terms of a little bit of micromanaging. And we were constantly arguing about things, and how things should get done. But he still had this amazing way of listening to me, that he would just sit back, he would listen to what I was saying and he could pick it up, what was really stopping me. What was my own assumptions, beliefs of what was going on? That’s why I always say he was one of my best leaders, even though we struggled through the management process, but I will always respect him and remember him for his leadership. So there was this one time I was complaining about my coworkers on the HR team and I had all this work to do, but they were doing this, but not really accomplishing a lot. Of course I always did all this work and people never worked as hard as me, you know. It’s the constant high-achiever complaint! And he was just sitting there and finally he says to me, “Wow, it seems like you’re just really disappointed with everyone.” And I’m like, “Yeah, I am!” And he said, “Huh. Will anyone ever be good enough for you?”

Halelly: Whoa!

Marcia: Exactly. And it made me just gasp. It broke through my little ego structure in my brain and made me just stop and I ran through this history of me constantly doing this in all of my relationships. And I couldn’t even respond to him in the moment. I was like, “Oh, my, I have to think about that!” And over the next few days, I realized I had been setting myself up for difficulties in all my relationships, I think, for most of my life. For whatever reasons, but I was always seeing people as not doing enough, which made me be the superhero and doing more, and not really recognizing what they were doing well and how I could work with them, instead of against them. So it led to the very rich conversations with myself and with him of how I could reestablish my relationships, by his one reflection and one question. And the thing is that what I describe in the discomfort zone and the book is what you’re listening for is not what the person needs to do, but what’s stopping them? What’s the block? And they’re going to give you hints by their emotions – the anger and frustration – and you start to ask, “What are you really angry about? Or what’s truly frustrating you?” You sense, or they’ll tell you – I’m so frustrated with this! You key into the emotion words and just get curious about that. And then in the book I also talk about a deeper level of listening where we activate our entire nervous system, and you honestly can pick up what is it that this person really wants, or what are they attached to that they can’t let go of.

You know, like a lot of leaders, they come to me and they’ve got, “Oh, I’ve got to have this really difficult conversation with this person but I don’t know what to say.” And if I jumped into, “Well, let’s practice it, what might you say to the person?” I’m not really looking at what’s stopping them. This is a smart person. They know what to say. I start saying, “So, when you go into the conversation, what do you think is going to happen?” And they start to talk about what could happen and they’re afraid of the emotional reactions they may create. So we can talk about that. But then if I really listen to what’s been stopping you from having this conversation in the first place, it almost always boils down to, “Well, if there is something wrong with the person, then there must be something wrong with me as a leader. And I think there must be something else I can do to fix this that I haven’t tried.” And I always ask the question, “Honestly, do you think you’ve done your best, done everything you could in this situation?” And they always stop and go, “Yeah, I really have.” It’s like, okay, can you give yourself credit for that? And just move into the conversation that you just have to have. So, again, you’re just really looking at what’s stopping this? What’s the fear? What’s the difficulty the person is having in moving forward? If you can get to that, and get them to stop and think about that, then you can always then say, “Okay, so now what do you need to do?” And they’ll tell you. They’ll always tell you.

Halelly: Wow. Well thank you for that, that was a really helpful example. And I think that a lot of people are going to be able to hear themselves in your story, and to hear echoes of their own internal conversations in that story. Which is why of course you’re helping so many people and thank you for that work. I know that we don’t have a lot more time left, and there’s a couple more things I wanted to talk to you about. So just real quick though, do you think that organizations are doing it right when they’re developing you and potential leaders? What’s something they could do even better?

Marcia: First off, to catch them early on. How many leaders come to me and say, “I wish I had this years ago,” and then they feel bad because they’ve not been doing it right, and I’m like, “Well, you did your best. And now you have something new to do.” But I think getting people to learn how to listen and to listen more deeply, even if we’re not teaching them full coaching skills but giving them a coaching approach on how to really be with people, and then in the book when I talk about the setup with the safety bubble to teach them how to shift their emotions so if they’re angry or afraid how can they be present with people? So setting an emotional tone, the leader always sets the emotional tone. They have to be, a little emotional intelligence is always good. How do I identify how I feel? How can I shift these emotions? How can I look at the person in front of me and see the best in them instead of the worst of them? You know, these things are really important for all leaders, but especially new leaders.

Halelly: I agree, and I see that a lot in my work. And when you look at the new generation coming up, everybody loves to complain about them, the Millennials or Generation Y, but having grown up with technology ever present and their devices, I do think that that gets in the way of them building those listening skills, or that they built very different listening skills. So I think there’s lots of work to be done.

Marcia: Well, and I love that the Millennials, what they’re doing is they’re pushing to be listened to. And I think that everyone has always wanted that, but they just expected that they wouldn’t get it. Where the Millennials are saying, “Listen to me, I have a lot to offer!” And we need to stop and listen to them and see what they have to offer and build on that. So bless the Millennials for pushing what all leaders should do.

Halelly: They’re pushing leaders into their discomfort zone big time! So what’s really exciting for you, now that the book is done and you’re marketing it, so what’s on the horizon?

Marcia: The book has allowed me to really move in and focus on the work that I most love to do. And this is around really working with leaders on how to fully connect, really connect, with people. Because again, I don’t know how many people are necessarily saying, “I want my leader to steer the ship,” but they want them to be next to them, to truly partner with them. And so I’m really working on how do we develop that full partnership where I really feel that you as my leader is my partner on this journey? And I think there’s that shift. So it’s not in front, and it’s not necessarily behind. It’s right next to us. So partner leader is what I’m working on.

Halelly: Oh my gosh. I’ve had leaders like that. It makes a world of difference. A world of difference! So, the listeners are developing their leadership skills, and you’ve talked about a lot and when they read your book they’ll learn a lot. But sometimes that’s very overwhelming, so what’s one actionable thing that they could do, starting today, or starting this week, that you think will help them shift their leadership skills upwards? What’s one thing they could do to upgrade their skills?

Marcia: Well, one of the favorite things I like to tell leaders is that people want you to be present more than they need you to be perfect. So I think if we just start working on just when somebody comes to you and you turn and you look at them and how can you be present with them in the moment? There’s so my things going on, yes, but can you shut that out, can you turn around and can you look at this person and have them feel that you are present with them? So many leaders say to me, “Well, it’s so hard for me to get people to talk to me, to have them open up and share and be vulnerable,” and I’m always saying, “How are you listening to them?” That if you fully turn around and you’re curious and you care, they sense that, and they will open up to you. And it’s not going to take a forever conversation. They’re not going to be all over the place. You just need to be present with them, and you can always just feed back to them. “I’m hearing this. I think I have the gist of your story,” and once they get that you’re really listening to them, that story will end. And you can start to move forward.

Halelly: Be present. And that, I think that enables everything that you have been teaching. That is probably just that turnkey thing to get started on. Good, I like that. So everyone, and anyone – no matter what position you’re in or what your role is – and in every conversation, whether it’s business or personal, how can we practice being more present? Do you have a quick way to do that, or just something really, really practical to help people shut out the distractions? What do you suggest?

Marcia: Actually, I have in my website, there’s an emotional inventory and an exercise where you stop three times a day and just ask, “What am I doing? And how am I feeling?” And what’s really interesting, so if you set yourself, your phone or your computer, a little alarm, that just stops and says, “What are you doing? How are you feeling?” And start to create the habit in the brain to be more in the moment. So you’re actually widening the neurotransmitters from your cognitive to your emotional brain, and creating a broader awareness for yourself. So if you practice this every day for a few weeks, you’ll start to do it naturally. So when somebody is with you, you can immediately go, “Ah. What am I doing? What am I feeling? Can I shift to feeling present and curious?” And curious is really a feeling. Can I feel curious? And care about this person? So you’re shifting your emotions in this moment, as well as your attention, which I think is really critical. So just practice that. You don’t really need any tools, you just practice that and set your alarms and ask yourself those two questions.

Halelly: Great advice. And so what you’re saying – and this rings true from the research I’ve done – is that by practicing with this simple thing, you’re actually creating new pathways in your brain?

Marcia: Absolutely.

Halelly: Love it. That is so practical and so applicable. Thank you very much for that. And I think that’ll make a huge difference. So, how can people getting touch with you or learn more about you as we wrap this podcast interview up?

Marcia: So my website is www.OutsmartYourBrain.com, and under the resource section of the website there are all kinds of tools and things that people can access and use. So it’s a website that’s useful for everybody. And my email is Marcia@outsmartyourbrain.com. So that would be the best and the quickest way of finding me.

Halelly: Excellent. I’m going to make sure I list that in the show notes as well as your books. And some of the other things that we mentioned in this. I really enjoyed speaking with you Marcia. I think that you’re always just so energizing and inspiring and of course very knowledgeable and smart. Thank you for sharing that with my audience, and I hope that you make today and excellent day.

Marcia: Thank you.

Halelly: Thank you Marcia.

That was fun. I enjoyed talking to Marcia, and I hope you enjoyed learning from her. She has such a vast amount of knowledge to share. And I love that last tip, so make sure that you take action so that it’s not just an idea in the back of your head, but actually something that helps you grow in your own leadership mastery. Thanks for tuning in. Go to the show notes to get all of the links to everything we discussed, including Marcia’s books, Marcia’s website, the resources she mentioned, and some of the other things we talked about. That’s at www.talentgrow.com/podcast/episode13. And as always, please share this with others you think who might find this beneficial. Leave us a rating and a review on iTunes so that more people can discover us, and leave me comments in the comments below on the show notes page. Thanks for tuning in. Make today great.

Announcer: Thanks for listening to the TalentGrow Show, where we help you develop your talent to become the kind of leader that people want to follow. For more information, visit TalentGrow.com.


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